Softdesk Flash Button

    Hi,


    I would like to create a simple bump button to flash some of the lights on a simple mouse click. I can make the lights respond after thoroughly reading the softdesk tutorial, but I seem to hit a bit of a wall if I'm using lights that are already lit. If the fixture is live, it flashes in response to my mouse click but then goes out and doesn't return to it's cuelist specified level. No doubt it's a HTP/LTP issue but I can't find where I can adjust this setting for the softdesk control.


    In short, I would like to override a cuelist level with a momentary softdesk signal and then have the fixture return to it's scene specified level. Is that possible?


    Many thanks in advance.

    Metric.

    Hi,

    how did you built your flash cuelist? Reading your post, I suppose your flash cuelist has 2 cues, one with 100% intensity and one with 0% intensity. A better solution is to remove the second cue and use only the single 100% cue in this flash-cuelist. To fade back to the original value of the fixture, just use the release time of the cuelist itself to determine how long the fadeout should be. With that, the lights will go back to their original value. If you want to hold the flash as long as the button is pressed, just add a "dummy cue" with no values in it as second cue in the flash cuelist and set its trigger to "manual". Then, let the softdesk button stop the cuelist, if you release the softdesk button (in addition to the start of the cuelist). This will start the flash and holds it as long as you keep the flash button pressed. Releasing the button releases the cuelist and the flash fades back to the original value of the light.


    However, there is another potential issue: The restart possibility of the flash cuelist. While releasing, the cuelist is active until it is finally released. The issue with that is, the restart of the flash during fadeout. In order to restart the flash cuelist, you first have to stop it and then you can restart it. However, this short stop is visible. Therefore, I usually have 2 identical flash-cuelists and in the input assignment I toggle between them.


    About the HTP / LTP setting of the softdesk controls: There is no such setting in the softdesk controls. Instead, the cuelists contain the HTP / LTP / LoTP setting. In DMXC there is a stack of currently active cuelists and they are sorted in this stack first by the priority (the higher the priority, the higher in the stack) and second by HTP / LoTP / LTP for cuelists with equal priority (in this order from higher in the stack to lower). The result is a HTP / LoTP / LTP stack for each priority value stacked in a priority value based stack (I hope, it is understandable what I mean :saint:). This stack of cuelists is used in the DMXCMixer to determine the resulting value of every device property. The DMXCMixer starts from the top and goes down until it reaches the first LTP cuelist. Then it went back up again and mixes this LTP value with all LoTP and HTP values to find the resultig one. However, the HTP, LoTP, LTP setting only affects dimmer values. All other value types are mixed on a LTP basis.


    I hope, my post was understandable and you got the idea behind the whole priority thing in DMXControl 3 :)


    JP

  • LightningBrothers

    Changed the title of the thread from “Softdesk Flash Button.” to “Softdesk Flash Button”.

    Hello...


    I have to adjust the following explanation...

    Quote from JPK

    If you want to hold the flash as long as the button is pressed, just add a "dummy cue" with no values in it as second cue in the flash cuelist and set its trigger to "manual". Then, let the softdesk button stop the cuelist, if you release the softdesk button (in addition to the start of the cuelist). This will start the flash and holds it as long as you keep the flash button pressed. Releasing the button releases the cuelist and the flash fades back to the original value of the light.

    and add the following: It's possible, to work at least in three different ways with Strobe oder generally say "highlight cuelists" in DMXControl 3. They are:

    • Variant 1: Start by push the button the first time, cuelist is running, stop by a seconds push
    • Variant 2: The cuelist is only running while pushing the button
    • Variant 3: The cuelist starts when pushing the button and ends automatically after a defined time

    Variant 1 und 2 usually work with only one cue inside the cuelist. Also the settings of the cuelist and the connectionset in the Input Assignment are the same. The difference is made, with mode you choose for the button in the Softdesk. If the option "Is toggle button" set to "true", you will get the result as described in Variant 1. Will you get the result from Variant 2, then you keep the option "Is toggle button" by the default value "false".


    Only for the Variant 3, you need a dummy cue as JPK described. But not by the trigger "manual", you should set them to "follow". As trigger value or fade time, you set the time, how long the cuelist will "stay" at that dummy cue. In the options for this cuelist, you set the "Release mode" to "When last cue ends".


    Some further information you should get by the Wiki article Cuelist (Connectionset examples) DMXC3 in our German wiki, they are correspond to the described Variant 1 and 2. I hope, you will get them by a translation tool.


    Best regards, Stefan

    Quote from LightningBrothers

    Only for the Variant 3, you need a dummy cue as JPK described. But not by the trigger "manual", you should set them to "follow". As trigger value or fade time, you set the time, how long the cuelist will "stay" at that dummy cue. In the options for this cuelist, you set the "Release mode" to "When last cue ends".

    You did not get my point ;) I set the "manual" trigger on purpose because then the cuelist stays on as long as the button is pushed (as I said in my last post). The manual trigger works as a gate to hold between cue 1 and 2 as long as the button is pushed. Your variant will release the cuelist anyways but this is not what I was talking about ;) So to keep the flash scene on as long as the "flash button" is pushed, the "manual" trigger is needed and the button stops the cuelist with an additional inverted connection in the input assignment between the button node and the "stop and release"-input of the cuelist node. This stops the flash cuelist, when the button is released.

    im Falle eines Falles klebt Gaffa einfach alles, denn Gaffa ist dein Freund und Helfer :thumbup:

    Edited 2 times, last by JPK ().

    I agree with Stefan. Even for the variant "only active as long as the button is pressed" you don't necessarily need a dummy cue, but somehow I got used to it like JP said and build a dummy cue myself, but actually a good inspiration from Stefan because you can actually do without the dummy cue


    Edit: you just have to change the cuelist mode if you want to do without the dummy cue

    I had some rarely occurring issues when I do such a flash / blinder cuelist without a dummy cue. I don't know why (I could not track it down yet) so I added this dummy cue at the end.

    Greetings,


    many thanks for your support. I will be the first to admit I'm a bit of a hack and say that I didn't create a cue/scene for my strobe effect and simply created a momentary button labelled flash which I linked to the relevant DMX channels in the input assignment panel. The strobe works well but now I have to prepare the cue prior to the moment I want to flash the light (it's intended to simulate a camera flash) to ensure the fixture I've pointed the button at isn't lit or we'll lose some of our wash.


    Is there truly no way to create a button I can just click for a single press at the right moment to have the light flash a bright white and then return to it's cue defined state? Or must I build a cue sequence to create this? I'm a novice so advice must be straightforward.


    Many thanks once again for all assistance. It is much appreciated.

    Metric.

    Generally, you should not send anything directly to DMX values. Almost everything is working with cuelists and cues in DMXControl 3. Why we can explain later.

    Quote from Metric

    Is there truly no way to create a button I can just click for a single press at the right moment to have the light flash a bright white and then return to it's cue defined state?

    So also for this, you have to create a cuelist, where in the only one cue inside the need values are stored. This cuelist get a higher priority then your normal cues.

    Hi,


    the operating principals in DMXControl 3 are that way, that cuelists are a key element to control the lights. So yes, you need to create a cuelist for that. But to create this cuelist, there is not much effort to do so (not like in old DMX consoles ;)). Just select the devices you want to flash in the stage view and set their dimmer value to 100% and the color to white. Then click the "Add cue" button on the left of you have not created a cuelist yet or add a cuelist in the project explorer, open it via double click and click the "Add"-Button there. And you are done (with the flash part) ;) Maybe, you can provide your project here and tell us, which devices you want to flash. Then I can give you an example implementation for that :)


    JP

    Hi,


    perfect. I took your project and added the Flash effect in the form you wanted. I also added a blinder effect to show you, how this works too. Both effects are built in the way that they can overrule other running effects (by giving them a higher priority than the other cuelists). And both effects fade back to the scene specific values. I hope, this will help you to understand the approach. If not, feel free to ask :)


    JP

    Hello again, many thanks for the assistance so far. I have a couple of questions. The flash is now more of a brief white flare rather than a pop such a camera flash. Is it possible to have the fixture pop like a camera flash and still return to it's state set by the main cuelist? This may be a restriction of the cheap moving head I have here. I've played around with the settings of the flash cuelist but I can't seem to get it to do the thing I want.


    The Blinder program is quite interesting but the complexity of the scheme goes over my head. Could I get a brief description of how it works and why the complexity is necessary to bring the lights up and stay up as long as the button is pressed? I can think of a few applications for such a thing but how it's being done is hard to pick apart not having a programming background.


    What is the purpose of the dummy cues? I read over the earlier posts and I can't quite grasp what the purpose is for those. I think it is perhaps about resetting the cuelist to allow repeated softdesk inputs.


    One last sidenote, I can't seem to bring up the executor display shown in the tutorials. I'm not 100% certain I need to do so as the cuelist editor window will function well enough for our purposes but I feel like I'm missing something. The tutorial says to just add cues directly to an executor but the option to do so is not available in the Add Cue expanded menu. I'm a bit of a completionist when it comes to tutorials and so on.

    To answer at least a few questions at the moment, they I can answer without looking inside the project...


    Quote from Metric

    The flash is now more of a brief white flare rather than a pop such a camera flash.

    When the cue has not fade time and there is also no release time at the cuelist itself, it can be related more in direction to the devices in the first point of view. It isn't unusual, that a device with LED light source provide an internal dimming function, where it isn't possible to switch on and off immediately. If you have a conventional light source, the mechanics isn't fast enough.


    Quote from Metric

    I can't seem to bring up the executor display shown in the tutorials.

    Which tutorials are you talking about? The point why I ask is, that there is a fundamental change between DMXControl 3.2.3 and DMXControl 3.3.0. The executors get a complete redesign with the new version.


    Quote from Metric

    I'm not 100% certain I need to do so as the cuelist editor window will function well enough for our purposes but I feel like I'm missing something.

    The cuelist editor is something basic in DMXControl 3. Cuelists and cues are needed, when you like to run a light scene again. So after preparing a light scene and you want to keep them, you store them into a cue of a cuelist. For this you use the cuelist editor - especially if you want to edit a cue afterwards.


    Of course, the cuelist editor don't gives all features directly in comparison to other ways to run cuelists. In our text tutorials I say, that the cuelist editor is good enough for running only a few cuelists, they a more static or just made simple ambient background effect. If you want run and stop much more, you should take a look to the executors and of course a softdesk.

    Hello again,

    Quote from LightningBrothers

    Which tutorials are you talking about?

    I followed the Wiki link on the front page of the DMX Control website from where I got the software. There's a Tutorials page there. I can tell they're perhaps outdated as they don't match the current version completely. But well enough to point me in the right direction most of the time. I know there's a YouTube channel I can go to, to see very long detailed video tutorials which I will take in at some point soon.

    Quote from LightningBrothers

    If you have a conventional light source, the mechanics isn't fast enough.

    The fixture, while being a cheap, small, moving head, can do a camera type flash when set to a slow strobe function which was why I initially tried linking the softdesk flash button directly in the input assingment page, the relevant DMX outputs for that function on the fixture. It did work, but it highjacked the fixture and it went out rather than return to it's programmed level and colour. I think it might indeed be a limitation of the fixture, at least in part.


    At this point, the cuelist editor is sufficient for my needs, working with the kids to get a simple kids show underway. Getting softdesks and executors will be on the back burner till I can get the kids comfortable just putting lights onto the stage view, dmx addressing, and assigning to groups.